Halo 3 only runs at 640p
Posted: September 28th, 2007 | Author: Justin Nolan | Filed under: Halo 3, Xbox 360 | 57 Comments »Do you remember back in 2005, there was a stink about PGR2 and Perfect Dark Zero not running at a full 720p? They are rendered at a lower resolution, and then upscaled to 720p (or whatever resolution you have your 360 set to). So here we are, almost a full 2 years later, and the consoles biggest game even suffers from the same affliction. The smart people at the Beyond3D Forums got out their digital cameras and started counting pixels, and this is what they found:
Now before you call shenanigans, let me explain how this works. This has been confirmed using multiple stills from different sources. Here is how the math goes: Each “step” in a jaggy alias line equals one vertical pixel at the images native resolution (for angles beneath 45 degrees). In this example there are 16 steps in the jagged line. This means in the native rendering, there in a 16 pixel height difference between step 1, and step 16. This picture was taken on a 720p native LCD, running Halo 3 at “720p.” So when you have an alias line with 16 steps, there should be a physical height difference of 16 pixels. But instead here, there is an 18 pixel height difference!
What this means is the native image is only 16/18, or 88.88% (repeating), of the 720p outputted image. That means Halo 3 is only internally rendered at 640p, and the image is upscaled by the 360 to 1280×720.
More examples (on a 1080p display, so the math is slightly different)
Running at only 1138×640, that means there are 728,320 pixels. That’s a full 193,280 pixels LESS than 720p. In fact, it is even less pixels than your very average 1024×768! Hardly what anyone would consider “high-def.”
Again, these conclusions are not just being drawn from this one image. It has been verified on multiple displays running in 1:1 mode. When an LCD is running in 1:1, that means ever pixel in the image is mapped to it’s own pixel on the display. In every instance it is conclusive that Halo 3 is running at precisely 640p. This of course does not change how much fun the game is, or even how good it looks… even if we’re getting robbed of a few (hundred thousand) pixels.
On the bright side, Halo haters can no longer call Halo 3 “just Halo 2 graphics in HD.”
Side note: Before anyone accuses me of Halo hating… I’m enjoying the game thoroughly. I just think it’s sad the 360’s flagship game isn’t even running in high-def, let alone with anti-aliasing. I’m not a graphics whore though, and I still believe gameplay comes before graphics… but come on. Don’t put 720p/1080p on the box, and tell us everything on the 360 is in HD.
Two comments:
1) Up until today, Gears had been the flagship game. No problems there.
2) I believe 640p is still HD. Technically.
Regardless, a bit of a screw-up on Bungie’s end. And I thought things were looking up for the 360 :[.
Three HDTV standards are currently defined by the International Telecommunication Union: 720p, 1080i, and 1080p.
Damn it!
[...] Hmm. Looks like it’s 30FPS. That makes the 640p all the worse…. [It looks like Halo 3 is being rendered at 1138 x 640.] [...]
I don’t believe my eyes.
Lame. This is the best critique of the game you can come up with? Who gives a fuck about a 12% difference in pixel count? Get a life.
Booooo. It should run at 1080i. Why else did I buy that huge DLP?
[...] Original Post [...]
Halo 3 works in 1138×640 no AA
Why?
Halo uses (probably) their method for HDR (price for gorgeous light effects)
Bungie method: (34Mb PDF)
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=995b221d-6bbd-4731-ac82-d9524237d486&displaylang=en
Still I don’t like it – no AA and slightly lower resolution = more jaggies than necessary.
On X360 scaled games
Two 640p Perfect Dark and Halo3 (1138×640) (no AA)
Three 600p PGR3, Call Of Duty 3 and Tomb Raider (1024×600) (all have 2xMSAA)
RR6 is ~ 1440×810
1080p VT3 and NBA street (1920×1080)
thats all – all other games use 1280×720 (Tony Hawk on X360 is 720p))
On PS3
540p – The Darkness (960×540)
600p – Tony Hawk’s Proving Ground, Call Of Duty 3
Ninja gaiden Sigma 1280×720 (not 1080p game – software 2x scaller to 1080 from 960×720 – 1080p is more blurred than 720p!)
GTHD use 1440×1080
Rub’a'dub use 1600×1080
Stardust HD use 1280×1080
and more – mostly software scaling to 1080i (R6:Vegas – bad and blurry)
more info
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=43330
Honestly, what confuses me is that I have sat playing this game on my TV in 1080p and every thing looks smooth. Even the guns, which I would expect to be the most obvious aliased objects in the game–given their angles (and constant placement on the screen–are smooth.
This is in comparison to games like Forza 2 where the hoods of cars can be pretty jagged. So I’m left wondering if this is something I just apparently do not have the eye for or what.
Also, wouldn’t 640p technically be a HD resolution? Clearly they’re BSing about 720p/1080p, but my impression was that anything over 480p was in the HD realm?
Sorry, I meant to put that I was playing it in 1080i.
Also, I’m aware of the main standards of HD (as mentioned in comments here), but I still don’t see how it fits out of that realm even if it’s not really a standard.
A possible reason for the really low pixel count is that the file size of Halo 3 must be huge to start with. The maps themselves take a while to load before you’re able to play multiplayer, and that’s an indicator that the maps themselves are disgustingly huge. Add to that the game trying to render it in a really high resolution, and you’ve got loads that could take 3 to 4 times as long as they already are, as well as some possible bug issues.
Tony, I’m no expert, but I would assume that you don’t see jaggies at 1080i because it is actually running at 1080i in that case (or somewhere close to that), not 640i upscaled to 1080i. Progressive scan takes more processing, which is generally why you will see games that support 720p and 1080i and not 1080p. So it is possible that Halo 3 may run at 1080i, but not 720p. This article makes no mention of any testing with 1080i, but probably should if it’s going to make the claim that Halo 3 isn’t HD (assuming that 1080i is considered HD).
HDTV = 720/1080 ONLY, ANYTHING less is at best EDTV (enhanced definition).
like nolan stated, why list 720/1080p on the back of the box if that isn’t actually the native resolution? isn’t that false advertising? is halo2 on the 360 720/1080p just because the 360 scales it?? so WTF??
….hindsight’s 20/20, so this also explains why in one interview the dev was very dodgy/sketchy about whether the game supports 720 or 1080 natively. the best he could say was that they’re trying many different resolutions to find a good middle ground. i suppose at one point they must’ve been considering 480p as ‘good enough’ as well….
I think you guys should get your heads out of your fannyholes for one. This game runs circles around anything else ever made in the looks department. And for whoever actually sat there and counted the pixels, well, you my friend need to get a life.
[...] Halo 3 only runs at 640p [gamerawr!] [...]
[...] Halo 3 only runs at 640p [gamerawr!] [...]
[...] [Via gamerawr!] [...]
If it’s upsampling to 720p, it’s still outputting 720p. I’m sure we want to evaluate Halo 3’s graphics on native resolution, but HD is defined by the output resolution.
That said, it is still disappointing to see another letdown in the graphics department on the “next-gen” systems. Between sports games on the PS3 getting half the framerate and Xbox 360 upsampling from its native resolution, it just feels like the promise of HD gaming isn’t being delivered in this hardware generation. Hell, even the Wii at 480p is still using a lot of dithering for things like blending effects. You’d think if you’re sticking to just 480p, you wouldn’t need to half-ass any of your graphics effects, right?
[...] [Via gamerawr!] [...]
@Dan:
So does that mean that upscaled ps2 games on the ps3 are HD?
[...] play games that look amazing and wonder how they can possibly be running so smoothly in HD? Well apparently, in Halo 3’s case, it’s not. Instead of being presented in “true” HD, Halo 3 [...]
[...] [._.] [...]
720p LCD?
I can think of only a handful of older LCD Tv’s that do this.
Aren’t they nearly all 1366×768 nowadays? which would mean that the 720p image is being internally recaled to fit the lcd panels native resolution.
@fannyhole
Don’t you mean this games marketing runs circles around every other game? I like Halo, I really do, but in retrospect, that’s exactly the problem. It just doesn’t bring anything new to the table in terms of the FPS genre. And worst, this is supposed to be the 360’s flagship game, as in THE one game to buy if you have a 360.
Now that they have spent so much money on marketing, they kind of forgot to keep the quality high. Maybe they should have spent more on actually improving the game?
Even at 640p halo 3 is stunning, but i think upscaling caused my zephyr revision xbox 360 to die. I have 1 red light in the bottom quadrant, and am getting error code 74, which is usually an issue in the HANA chip. The HANA chip upscales the output, so it probably overheated and died.
That’s too bad, because now i’m paying for xbox live, and i don’t have a xbox while it is in for repairs.
Sreyan Sarkar, code 74 can also be a problem with the a/v cable. You might want to check that.
[...] community rep, Luke Smith, tries to do some damage control on the discovered Halo 3 resolution deficiency debacle: “In fact, if you do a comparison shot between the native 1152×640 image and the scaled [...]
[...] [Via gamerawr!] [...]
[...] [Via gamerawr] [...]
“HD is defined by the output resolution.”
If I have an upscaling DVD player that upscales DVD content to 720p or 1080p, the image may look pretty, but I am not watching HD content and my DVD still does not contain HD content. There’s a reason they don’t push them as HD players.
I’m a video editor, and there’s no way I would get away with putting “720p/1080p” on the packaging for video that relies on upscaling to get those resolutions.
While I fully understand the point you’re trying to make—damn corporate shills bullshitting us—I remember a time when 480p used to be the HD standard. 640p or 720p, the game still impressed me. Not the way Gears did, but not every game has to. It looks good enough to glance at while you’re enjoying awesome gameplay, and that’s all I really care about.
Then again I refused to say Twilight Princess was a 10-worthy game, ’cause I think RE4 looked better than it. So what do I know
.
[...] onto the post. You know, some people can be really petty. Don’t get me wrong, I can understand the tired diatribe of graphics being better than [...]
I believe it was the philosopher Heavy Weapons Guy who said “Cry some more.”
Well, all the more reason for them to release a PC version in full 1080P AA glory.
to all you dumbass fanboys who play on shitty 720p tvs- you may not notice it because it allready looks shitty on your tv and only looks a little shittier in 640p, but for people who are used to 1080p it makes a huge difference
I expected halo 3 to look just as crisp as gears of war, but with its sweet vibrant envirnments and HRD effects. The second i started a game i thought to myself “wow this actually looks kinda shitty”. But at the same time assumed my 1680×1050 LCD displaying the game at what i thought was 1280×1024 widescreen was at fault. “When i get my new 1080p lcd the game will just look fuckin awesome like the bungie.net 1920×1080 screenshots”. Now i know that what i saw was as good as halo 3 could ever look, no matter how high res the screen, it would just be 640p stretched and blown up to fit the screen. It was such a huge dissappointment… If you have ever seen what pc games look like at resolutions as high as 1680×1050, you can imagine how excited i was thinking halo 3 would be running at 1080p. For people who play on crappy 720p screems to start with- shut the fuck up you have no idea what youre talking about.
Alex, you are a technology whore, “my tv is better than yours b/c my dick is tiny” Shut the fuck up and go back to your boyfriend.
HALO 3 is the flag ship look at how high 360 jumped because of it gears is good but pump ur breaks its not better then halo 3
I’ve seen halo3 on a 40″plasma screen running at “720p” which is actually the 640 and I’ve seen it on my own tv which is a 61″ rear projection screen at 1080i, and I can say that textures and graphics overall look a lot more poly and colours are alot thicker at 720p than 1080i. At 720 edges look REALLY bad, and it’s almost like they move it’s horrible and hurts my eyes to play it. At 1080i it looks a bit more dull and not as colourful, the colour bleeds a little bit but looks A LOT more fluent and pure imo.
Anyway..idc about this 640 crap, it still looks great and is fun as hell
Honestly the game is amazing. I have no complaints. I just wish Bungie was honest with us about its resolution. Not being in 1080p would not have stopped me from buying this title. But in hind site it ticks me off I was fooled into believing it was something it is not.
how can i change the width of the screen when playing multi player on halo 3?
To everyone who says its still a fun game, the author said that too, so stop defending something that isn’t the issue. The issue is they deceived you about the resolution of the game, and that games should be honest about these things. Some of us notice — and its not about aliasing, its about resolution. How far can you see a dude crisply in the distance? Farther at 1080p, not as far at 720p, not even as far at 640p. As long as you keep things close and big and fast, a lot of people won’t notice, but if you’ve played crisp high def (esp. 1080p) games, you see the difference immediately.
KenshinSlayer wrote on 29. Sep 2007
“Don’t you mean this games marketing runs circles around every other game? I like Halo, I really do, but in retrospect, that’s exactly the problem. It just doesn’t bring anything new to the table in terms of the FPS genre. And worst, this is supposed to be the 360’s flagship game, as in THE one game to buy if you have a 360.
Now that they have spent so much money on marketing, they kind of forgot to keep the quality high. Maybe they should have spent more on actually improving the game?”
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I’m an admitted Halo hater even though I bought Halo 3 just so I can say that I own it! But, regarding your comment about Halo 3 supposing to be “THE one game to buy if you have a 360,” I believe Bungie has accomplished that. You can’t deny the sales figures of Halo 3. Call Halo fans stupid (which I do), but based on the sales of Halo 3, it turned out exactly to be THE one game to buy if you have a 360.
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Well that’s really not fair. It should run at 1080i. Why else did I buy that huge DLP?
Halo, is the nicest game to ever hit reality
interesting game…i like it
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this looks shopped.
I can tell from some of the pixels and from seeing quite a few shops in my time.
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it runs best on 1080i
what is so sad is i bought a hd monitor expecting awesome. it has lag issues
don’t scale to 720p or 1080p, you’ll notice major framerate drop.
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[...] ??????? Bungie Confirms: Halo 3 Doesn’t Run Natively in HD gamerawr! // Halo 3 only runs at 640p HDR?????? ?????? ?3D???????????Half-Life 2: [...]
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